Showing posts with label rrCaNW. Show all posts
Showing posts with label rrCaNW. Show all posts

Trail/C&NW/CMO Hustler Tunnel

(Bridge Hunter; Satellite)

CMO = Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha Railway

Mark Llanuza posted
Its early Spring 1984 I'm at Hustler tunnel at Hustler Wis on the CNW Elroy St Paul division .By the 1987 the railroad abandoned this section north of Reedsburg Wis to Camp Douglas and now is a bike trail that photographer [Bruce Schwierske ] matched my older shot i took in 1984.



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C&NW Noble Street Tower: C&NW passenger main vs. C&NW local freight

(Satellite)  Closed in 1980
NorthAmericanInterlockings:  photo
Chicago and Northern Indiana Railroad Interlocking Towers (click the marker for the correct information)

Steven J. Brown posted
Metra F40PH 177 at the site of the former Noble Street Tower in Chicago - November 5, 2001.
I shared
UP/C&NW on the left and Metra/(Milwaukee + Pennsy's Panhandle) on the right. The spur is gone, but they still store track supplies where the tower stood: https://www.google.com/…/@41.8888377,-87.6620…/data=!3m1!1e3
David Daruszka Noble Street was a C&NW tower. It controlled the junction between the Galena Division tracks that went to the Madison Street CPT and the old line that ran to Wells Street Station. Those tracks were used for local freights.
Jon Roma I think the tower lasted till the early Eighties.
1938 Aerial Photo from ILHAP
Dennis DeBruler In 1938 there was an incredible amount of track in the area.
1938 Aerial Photo from ILHAP
Dennis DeBruler An incredible amount of track! Note the viaduct that used to carry Milwaukee Avenue southeast to Canal Street.
The triangular building that we can see next to the viaduct still exists.

Fortunately, David's comment steered me away from Milwaukee or Pennsy and to C&NW. The spur we see in Stephen's photo goes down an embankment, along the south side of Kinzie Street, past Hubbard Street Yard, over the "now always up" bridge, under (and serviced) the Merchandise Mart, past the State Street Yard and the Kraft Plant, through the industries around Ogden Slip, and terminated at the end of Navy Pier.

Since the Milwaukee tracks were just south of the C&NW spur, we see the tower on the right side in the background of this photo.
Thomas Manz posted
This looks like it could be Chicago - but where?
Mitch Markovitz Coming downhill towards Chicago Union Station just east of Noble Street.
Ean Kahn-Treras Yup, Mitch has it. Not used to seeing an eastbound with an engine instead of a cab car at this location.

Noble St tower on the CNW way off in the background on the right.


Very neat find, Thomas!
Mitch Markovitz And hey kids...Not only the Noble Street Tower as a clue but the Pennsy position light signal back there.

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River Junction (Tower RS): Aban/C&NW vs. Aban/C&NW

(Satellite)
NorthAmericanInterlockings:  see below

I discovered there is a second "River Junction" in Chicago. But the proper name for that junction is River Branch Junction.

William Shapotkin posted
You sure as heck would not recognize this location today -- this is "River Junction" (Tower RS). Located at what would otherwise be known the intersection of Bryn Mawr/Kostner Ave in Chicago, this is where the C&NW "Valley Line" (veering off to left) and "Weber Line" (veering off to right) split. View looks north.
Roger Wilhelmi The last time I ran a train here was about '87 or '88. The trees and bushes were encroaching on the right of way quite a bit then. I think the track from Valley south was cut at Skokie in the early '90s?? Whatever the case, this picture has no semblance of familiarity to me whatsoever.Ken Rehor The Valley Line is a trail. https://www.traillink.com/trail/valley-line-trail/ I don't see any info about the other portion.Ken Rehor Excellent summary of the Weber Line here http://www.abandonedrails.com/Chicago_to_Northbrook

Dennis DeBruler I discovered there is a second "River Junction" in Chicago that has the alternate name River Branch Junction.https://www.google.com/.../@41.7166929,-87.../data=!3m1!1e3

Bob Lalich River Branch Jct is the correct name for the junction of the Calumet River RR and the ex-PRR Ft Wayne line.
Satellite
The turnout for this branch (lower-right corner) still exists. But I don't know why because the track now goes just a few hundred feet to the Wilson Ave. overpass. I would think the turnout would be the first thing UP would remove to reduce the maintenance of the Harvard Subdivision.
My 2005 SPV Map shows the Weber line still going to Devon Avenue.
Satellite
You can tell by the curved parking lot boundaries and the skinny tree line that there used to be some industrial spurs south of Peterson Ave.
1938 Aerial Photo from ILHAP
This branch had already been abandoned here in 2005.

Global Earth, 12/30/2005
Some industrial buildings that at least used to use rail service still existed in 1999 (the oldest date available in Google Earth).

Global Earth, 3/21/1999


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UP/C&NW: CPY011/25th Ave/JN Interlocking

(Satellite) Of course, the tower has been replaced by a signalling equipment cabinet.
no Chicago and Northern Indiana Railroad Interlocking Towers

William Shapotkin posted three photos with the comment: "Here are three pix of JN Interlocking (25th Ave in Melrose Park, IL) on the C&NW. Note that (in the interior photo) JN also controlled Vale Interlocking (River Forest) remotely."

Vale is now CPY010 and my 2005 SPV Map shows it is east of a river and west of the River Forest station. So I assume this is it.

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I searched for this tower in a 1938 aerialsabout a year ago, but I could not find it. These photos provided better clues as to its location, and I believe I did find it in this image.

Dec 2005 Global Earth
Knowing where it was, it was easy to find it on an older photo.

1938 Aerial Photo from ILHAP



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Westinghouse Gas Turbine, Switchtenders and Commuter Operations

The notes for the C&NW 40th Street Yard are getting long, so I'm going to treat this locomotive parked there as a separate topic. I also learned that there is still a staffed switchtender position controlling the throat to the 40th Street Yard.

David Daruszka updated
John Carson Westinghouse's gas turbine experiment. Did not work out. Pre dates GE's Gas Turbines on the UP.
David DaruszkaDavid and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. Westinghouse-Baldwin No. 4000 was an experimental 4,000-hp B-B-B-B demonstrator locomotive built in 1950. The unit was powered by two relatively small 2,000-hp gas turbines mounted side-by-side within a 77 ft 10 in carbody. Each turbine drove two generators, which in turn supplied power to four axles.

The odd-looking nose of the unit was very similar to earlier Raymond Loewy designs used on the Baldwin “Sharknose” locomotives, and incorporated a prow that slanted in a forward direction. The unit was painted powder blue and gray with orange stripes on the nose, and the nickname “Blue Goose” was soon adopted.

The four two-axle road trucks were similar to those used on Baldwin road switchers. Unlike trucks used on other large units, there were no bolsters between pairs of trucks. Instead, the carbody slid transversely over the trucks, contained by a spring system. The end result of this design was an extremely smooth ride.

Its demonstration tours included passenger service on the Pennsylvania, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and Chicago & North Western, and freight service on the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie and Union Railroads. The unit had favorable results when compared to two EMD E7 Diesel-Electric locomotives, but the radical differences in design were too much for the unit to catch on. After two years of extensive demonstration, there were (sadly) no buyers, and the unit was sent back to the Westinghouse Combustion Turbine Systems Division in East Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and was eventually scrapped. It was around this time as well that Westinghouse made the decision to exit the locomotive business.

Photo taken at the C&NW's 40th Street diesel ramp by Wallace W. Abbey.

David Brann The trouble with gas turbines in locomotives is that their performance characteristics don't match the locomotive duty cycle. A gas turbine, particularly one with a regenerative cycle, can be quite efficient at its design point, but off-design performance is terrible. I once sat chewing the fat with an old GE hand, who told me that the GE gas turbines burned 15 gallons per minute of Bunker C at full load, but 10 gallons per minute at idle. The reason is that even at idle, with no output power, the gas generator is still going. By contrast, a diesel might burn 200 gallons per hour at full load, but only two or three at idle. And locomotives idle a LOT. Most real duty cycles have about ten per cent of the time at full load, but fifty or so per cent at idle. Even with cheap fuel like Bunker C, it's difficult for a gas turbine to be cost competitive on duty cycle fuel consumption with a diesel.
Robert De Anyone remember the switchman’s shanty about 1-2 blocks east of the 40th St. yard alongside the west line? You had to drive into the neighborhood and walk up the embankment to get to it.
The rest of these comments where in the reply section to Robert's question. I was kinda shocked to learn that a switchtender shack still exists and is staffed. The comments are out of order so that comments for the same thread are grouped together.

Bob Lalich There were two switchtenders at the east end of 40th St, even into the 1980s. Here is a shot I took in 1982 in which both shanties can be seen.
[It is the far shanty with a car next to it that still exists. ]
David DaruszkaDavid and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. Believe it or not, there was actually a station located there. I'm not sure when it was demolished. Circled in red.
Patrick McNamara Harding Avenue Switchtender still on duty - first shift only.
Dennis DeBrulerYou and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. Patrick McNamara I need a "teaching moment." A switchtender is a worker that walks across tracks to an appropriate turnout to manually throw the switch? I know the ladder to commuter coach yards and some other yards are still manual. But I would have thought that the throat to such a busy engine facility would have had automatic turnouts a long time ago. Since most of the commuter engines start their day before first shift and end it after first shift, do the engines normally park overnight in the California Yard with their coaches? Specifically, the only traffic seen here are locomotives taken off their train for maintenance?

Your photo is looking east and the shanty is to the left (north) of the loco. (And I need to find what still has that big smokestack on the south side.)
https://www.google.com/.../data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQsjDlsGC-j...


Patrick McNamara The Harding Avenue Switchtender is in radio contact with the Diesel Ramp Foreman that tells him where he wants certain engines as they come in for fueling, servicing, etc., during the time between morning and evening rush. The engines and their consists sleep over (on the West Line) at Elburn, staged for their departures from there weekday mornings beginning around 4:45AM. David Daruszka can expound upon the routine on the Wisconsin side, on the North and North-West Lines.

Dennis DeBrulerYou and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. Patrick McNamara I had a brain burp. The trains would be downtown (California Yard) during the day. And that is when the engines would be serviced. I've studied the CB&Q operation because you can see their yards from bridges. Since the UP/C&NW yards are elevated, there is not much for John Q Public to see.

David DaruszkaDavid and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. When I worked there in the 70's and 80's the outlying terminals were Harvard, Crystal Lake, McHenry, Barrington and DesPlaines on the Northwest line and Kenosha and Waukegan on the North line. Some jobs started out of the CPT and M19A.

Robert De I think they ran a certain amount of skoots out to the west/north ends of the mains to sit overnight for the next morning's inbound commute.
Use to park passenger cars at the California yard during the day hours.


David DaruszkaDavid and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. The majority of the evening rush hour trains would tie up at the outlying points over night on all the lines. The last trains out of downtown would layover for 3-4 hours and then run in on a morning train. We'd make beds with the seats and sleep. I went to college part time while working a night job. California Avenue is a servicing yard for the commuter coaches. I think initially it was strictly for the Galena Division commuter service, but when they closed the Erie Street coach yard Cal. Ave. was expanded to accommodate the Wisconsin Division equipment. Intercity trains were serviced at 40th Street.





David DaruszkaDavid and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. Dennis DeBruler, the smoke stack was part of the Garfield Park Conservatory complex. Its still there but much reduced in size.

Dennis DeBrulerYou and 1 other manage the membership, moderators, settings, and posts for Chicago Railroad Historians. David Daruszka I presume it is for steam heat for all of those greenhouses. https://www.google.com/.../data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4...
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UP/C&NW 1908 Bridge over Root River in Racine, WI

(Bridge Hunter, Historic Bridges3D Satellite)

David Daruszka posted three photos with the comment:
Union Pacific (former C&NW) Root River Bridge in Racine, WI. The bridge was designed as a moveable swing bridge, but never used as one. The river traffic never materialized.
David Daruszka It was known as the C&NW "Old Line" that ran to Milwaukee. The UP downgraded it to single track and it still carries freight, primarily coal for a power plant.


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Peter Oberdick It looks like the gearing was installed. I wonder if it was manual or powered.David Daruszka Given the size of the bridge I would assume it was meant to be powered.
This bridge is so massive that it looks too large for its swing pier. This bridge is a very unusual swing bridge because it is a deck truss. Most swing bridges are through truss bridges or plate girders. It is also a fairly large span for a swing bridge. The double-warren truss configuration is uncommon and noteworthy. [Historic Bridges]
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Pennsy's 12th Street Junction = C&NW Taylor Street plus B&OCT Rockwell Street

What Pennsy called 12th Street was really B&OCT Rockwell Street where the B&OCT crossed both C&NW and Pennsy/Panhandle/Chicago & Great Eastern (C&GE) and C&NW Taylor Street where the C&NW and C&GE crossed each other to switch sides in the corridor.

The B&OCT Rockwell Street junction was important when passenger trains were still running because both the Wisconsin Central and the Chicago Great Western used this B&OCT route to access Grand Central Station. WC built the route with Northern Pacific's funding because NP wanted to use the WC to access the Chicago market. (By the time this route was built, Chicago was forcing new railroads to share a route into the city to reduce the city being cut up by railroads. NP had to buy and tear down a lot of buildings to build this route.) But the NP went bankrupt in the panic of 1893, and B&O bought a lot of NP's Chicago assets and created the B&OCT to own those assets. This route is now abandoned because 1) CGW no longer exists, 2) no passenger trains are running and Grand Central Station was quickly torn down to be a vacant lot to this day, 3) the city condemned some of the bridges between BRC and downtown, and 4) CN bought EJ&E as well as SOO/WC and uses the EJ&E rather than run trains past people's homes in Forest Park. (But the Forest Park people might be in for a surprise because CREATE B1 includes a crossover between IHB and CN tracks that would again allow CN to run trains through Forest Park to the BRC connection. I see that CREATE has given up trying to maintain a project status map. So I don't know if B1 is done yet.)

Image from RailFanGuides
1938 Aerial Photo form ILHAP

Satellite
Bob Lalich Flickr
This photo shows the multiple crossings of the CTT/B&OCT, CNW and PRR Panhandle near 14th and Rockwell shortly after the railroads were elevated. Note what appears to be an interlocking tower on the left and a signal bridge in the distance. I thought these crossings had always been non-interlocked and the connections were manned by switchtenders on the CNW and B&OCT but this photo may indicate otherwise. At the time of the photo, passenger trains were running on this part of the Panhandle using the north end of the old Union Station.
John Uhlich commented on a posting:
My memory of the Pan Handle is coming back...been years since I even thought of this: when headed for the Penn Central's 47th St. (?) Yard from Rockwell Sub., we would stop at Taylor St. 47th St. yard is now a CSX intermodal yard and has been for many years. When we got the highball, we had to have a highball from both Taylor St. and the B&O switch tenders. B&O switch tender was only a couple of hundred yards at most further south from Taylor St. B&O switch tender had a different colored light or flag (daylight) and depending on what road you were, you needed the correct color light or flag to proceed. I seem to recall If you were coming off CNW you got a white light or flag, if coming off B.O.C.T. you needed a green light, and if you were coming off Pan Handle you got a yellow light or flag. B&O switch tender lined us up for the Pan Handle. The Pan Handle tracks were on the west side of the elevated RR combined right of way for the CJ, CSX (B.O.C.T.) and then the Pan Handle. Once we got down to 47th St. (?) interlocking, the B&O tower operator would line train up to cross the B.O.C.T. mainline tracks and into the Penn Central yard. I recall there was a large malt house at the very north end of the yard but it closed years ago and was probably demolished.
Dennis DeBruler I had to do some head scratching to determine that what C&NW called Taylor Street was called 12th Street by Pennsy and some other maps I have seen. At one time it certainly was a very complicated junction: https://www.flickr.com/photos/46264216@N08/19528595570/
Dennis DeBruler Now it is greatly simplified: https://www.google.com/.../@41.8671734,-87.../data=!3m1!1e3
Dennis DeBruler A 1987 view by Bob Lalichhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/46264216@N08/19064724884/
John Uhlich That's the place! That rusty rail is where the Pan Handle was...
John Uhlich That abandoned brown brick factory building tot he left and the smokestack have been long gone...property was redeveloped years ago. Sat vacant for a long time before it was redeveloped. Can't remember what type of factory it was....the first time I rode down Rockwell Sub back in 1974 at night it seemed like a long, dark tunnel lined with abandoned brick buildings....one by one they were all demolished. Including the National Guard Armory on Madison St.
John Uhlich Dennis DeBruler That control tower you see in distance is right where the old B&O switch tender's shanty would have been. Incredible photograph! Where the heck do they get such old photos?
John Uhlich Dennis DeBruler That factory to the right of about 4 or 5 stories appears to be involved in manufacturing windmills and railroad equipment. Later the Wheeling Company made corrugated cans and barrels there. I am sure anyone over age of 60 remembers the old Wheeling brand trash cans before the advent of plastic garbage cans. That building was torn down many years ago.
Bob Lalich After constructing the SC&S in the late 1880s, most of the Panhandle passenger trains used the SC&S between Bernice Jct and Colehour Jct, then the Ft Wayne line to reach the south end of Union Station. I believe any remaining secondary passenger trains using the original Panhandle line into the north end of Union Station were gone by the 1920s.

Dennis DeBruler commented on John's posting
Dennis DeBruler From the 1916 map in the Files section, I highlighted the Bernice Cutoff in Yellow. The PFW&C was the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne & Chicago Railroad. It was part of Pennsy's mainline between Chicago and NYC. The PCC&StL was the Panhandle that we have been discussing. Note that the Panhandle had a lot of grade crossings with railroads as well as roads. The PFW&C had a grade crossing with just the Rock Island at Englewood. NS got the Pennsy tracks at Englewood and Metra got the RI tracks. That grade crossing was recently removed by the CREATE P1 project that raised Metra over NS: https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../10/create-p1.html

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Copper River & Northwestern Railway and its bridges

Mile 27, Flag Point Bridge: ( Satellite ; Blog ; more below) Mile 28: the bridge no longer exists; Blog Mile 34, Hot Cake Bridge: the bridge...